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Jeff931
Jeff931
Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 28 2009, 8:46 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 28 2009, 8:46 AM EDT
Ok, I need to ditch my iron "Aussie" heads-too much compression for pump gas-so its time to get out the wallet again.
I like the CHI heads, they look to be nicely machined right out of the box and they kicked ass at the Engine Masters Challenge; has anyone got any real hands-on experience with any of these heads?
I'm going to use them on my 393 stroker in my Ranchero.
1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Keyword tags: 351C tech articles
HOT_ROD_CAR
HOT_ROD_CAR
1. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 28 2009, 8:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 28 2009, 8:04 PM EDT
Just wondering if you are going to get rid of the Aussie heads? How much? Thank you. Do you find this valuable?    
HOT_ROD_CAR
HOT_ROD_CAR
2. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 28 2009, 8:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 28 2009, 8:06 PM EDT
I have a set of 2V (non-Aussie low compression) heads if you're interested. Do you find this valuable?    
Jeff931
Jeff931
3. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 29 2009, 7:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 29 2009, 7:19 AM EDT
"I have a set of 2V (non-Aussie low compression) heads if you're interested."
yeah, Hot Rod, I'm going to unload them shortly, but they wont be dirt cheap-----I've got $1500 into them already; I'll post pictures when they are off the car and ready to go.

They are "Aussie" 302C heads, with the small 58cc closed chambers and the smaller 2V size ports; {I'll cc them again when they come off}, I went to town on these heads and put Manley stainless race 2.19/1.72 valves into them, hardened exhaust seats, bronze guides, CompCams "bee-hive" springs with 7* cro-mo locks, machined for teflon seals, guide plates and 7/16" rocker studs, a three angle valve job and cleaned up the bowls and ports and had them crack-checked. They have about a 500 miles on them now; They are good for 6500 rpm and up to 0.590" valve lift, and would work really well on a non-stroker motor with dished pistons. {mmmm, maybe I should build a little "Clevor"????} I'll post pictures when they are off the car and ready to go.

I've already got two sets of 2V heads collecting dust, thanks. and two cranks, a 0.030" over 2V block, two iron two barrel manifolds, three two barrel carbs, an FMX tranny, an AOD tranny, three convertors, two driveshafts......no wonder there is no room in the garage!
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Jeff931
Jeff931
4. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Jan 4 2010, 10:16 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 6 2010, 4:20 PM EST
I contacted both CHI and AFD last month, while I was in Australia; I had hoped to get a look at these heads before I lay down my cash-call me old school.

The CHI people responded to my emails promptly, with recommendations, but the AFD guys did not. They both have good websites full of info and pictures.

http://www.chiheads.com.au/2V_190CC.php

http://www.airflowdynamics.com.au/products/cleveland_heads.htm

http://www.trickflow.com/partdetail.asp?part=TFS%2D51600004%2DM62&autoview=sku

Trick flow responded to my emails also, but couldn't supply a SINGLE photo of their chambers or ports (just the standard catalog pic), but did supply the following flow numbers:
lift intake exhaust
.100 68 55
.200 140 111
.300 202 151
.400 248 187
.500 286 217
.600 299 232

The Trick Flow heads look to flow a bit less than CHI or AFD, but they are about a $500-1000 cheaper.

Does anyone have any more information on any of these heads?
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Jeff931
Jeff931
5. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Jan 6 2010, 4:17 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 6 2010, 4:17 PM EST
My local speed shop, Mopac, put me onto a guy named "Johnny Cleveland" (seriously!) Apparently, he got a set of the new TrickFlow Cleveland 190cc heads and flowed them and got 345 cfm out of them, box-stock, no porting yet!!!!!

He's pretty excited about these new heads, and really surprised because they kicked the **** out of a set of AFD 3V's he has, and they are already ported to death!

I'm going over to have a look at these bad-boys; I'll snap a few pics and post them asap. But for $2095 from Summit, and 345cfm, these heads sound pretty damn interesting!
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rvjmtntop
6. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Jan 13 2010, 6:23 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 13 2010, 6:23 AM EST
Hey, about aussie heads, I'd like to plant a set on a 400M in a truck to gain some compression and make it not such a pooch. What do you think?Also intending to put '70 cleveland motor in '86 mustang notchback for street/race fun. Do you find this valuable?    
Jeff931
Jeff931
7. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Jan 17 2010, 6:38 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 17 2010, 6:38 PM EST
Well, I didn't make it over to Johnny Cleveland's shop to see those Trick Flow heads- he installed them and shipped out the engine to his customer before I got there; I'm just waiting for my local speed shop to get another set in stock, so I can have a look and take some pictures.

BUT, Johnny is VERY excited about these new heads; he said that they had only three minor problems:
a) the valve guide clearance is insufficient (he diamond-hones them)
b) he re-grinds the intake valves and seats (three-angle instead of just two) and
c) he grinds a little off the short -side radius on the intake ports, there is a little sharp ridge where the clean-up in the bowl meets the unfinished port-two minutes work with the grinder.

He flowed them and saw 304CFM @ .700 lift BEFORE any work. (I had previously posted a flow number of 345-this was incorrect-my mistake.)

He also told me I have my hands full with my current 302C heads; they were very prone to detonation and they don't like larger valves and he hasn't used them much lately in the last 6-7 years, with all the aluminum heads coming to market. He has another set of Trick Flows on order now, and will fully port them with a matching RPM Air Gap and explore their potential.

He suggested that I leave both AFD and CHI heads alone, as he has never had a set that actually met the published flow numbers, even with a bunch of work.

Anyway, I am pretty much convinced and ready to order a set now; I got an RPM Air Gap this week, and I think I will also do a cam change at the same time with the heads, and then hit the engine dyno this time to sort things out right (I didn't dyno the engine when it came back from the builder, and have been struggling to sort it out in the car.)
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suicide67
8. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 9 2010, 5:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 9 2010, 5:47 PM EDT
Hey Jeff931, any news on the trick flows? Do you find this valuable?    

muscleup351
9. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 10 2010, 6:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 10 2010, 6:46 PM EDT
"Ok, I need to ditch my iron "Aussie" heads-too much compression for pump gas-so its time to get out the wallet again.
I like the CHI heads, they look to be nicely machined right out of the box and they kicked ass at the Engine Masters Challenge; has anyone got any real hands-on experience with any of these heads?
I'm going to use them on my 393 stroker in my Ranchero."
CAREFULL the chi heads need their intake to mate.Also procomp heads are the same . Im running 351 boss heads cast #d1ae-ga 58 cc after milling. Also a 393 stroker Total compression 10.6 to 1 I believe the old story of detonation is with old igniton systems and cams. My procomp msd and comp roller cam seems to have no problem with preignition. Running a 1000cfm of carbs keeps the motor rich.Also helping with detonation . I have no experience with the aussie heads or aftermarket but did some research. Ive found the bigger ports of the 4v heads work well with more cubes. Just my opinion
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Jeff931
Jeff931
10. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 10 2010, 7:40 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 10 2010, 7:40 PM EDT
I was concerned that the Trick flow's at 190cc might be a little small for a 393 stroker, so I started looking for something in the 225cc range; I couldn't find a set of CHI or AFD's anywhere in north america, or even get an answer when they might be available, so I gave up on those too. I got lucky and found a virgin 1970 D1AE-GA 4V closed chamber heads close to home (and 2 bolt block, crank, rods, intake, everything) so I thought these are worth a try.

I spent 20+ hours porting them, then had bronze guides installed and re-used the Manley race valves from my Aussie heads, machined for guideplates and 7/16" studs and milled them just enough to square them up.

I installed them along with a set of Hooker Comp 1 7/8" headers, and an Edelbrock RPM AirGap intake manifold and I kept my same Comp hyd roller cam (which I still don't like), Comp Magnum rockers, went to a little softer dual valve spring instead of the bigger Comp Beehive's I was running; the car has finally come to life! What a difference!
The engine still comes on at about 2200, but pulls now from 3000 right to 6000! I can run 42' of timing and no more detonation, even on 91 octane pump gas; It idles with a nice lope now, and finally sounds like a hot rod, melts tires, and my gas mileage on the highway actually went up to 13mpg!

I just put the 3.70 gears into the rearend, so I haven't been down the track with it yet, but if feels a LOT stronger now; I still have a camshaft/convertor issue to solve (my 11" Prostreet converter stalls at 3500 instead of 2400 and this camshaft isn't right) but this is just what this engine needed-bigger heads and a little less compression; I should have done this on day 1.

And now that I think more about it, isn't owning a Cleveland all about "those 4 barrel heads" with ports that are "too big" anyway?
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muscleup351
11. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 6:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 6:57 AM EDT
"I was concerned that the Trick flow's at 190cc might be a little small for a 393 stroker, so I started looking for something in the 225cc range; I couldn't find a set of CHI or AFD's anywhere in north america, or even get an answer when they might be available, so I gave up on those too. I got lucky and found a virgin 1970 D1AE-GA 4V closed chamber heads close to home (and 2 bolt block, crank, rods, intake, everything) so I thought these are worth a try.

I spent 20+ hours porting them, then had bronze guides installed and re-used the Manley race valves from my Aussie heads, machined for guideplates and 7/16" studs and milled them just enough to square them up.

I installed them along with a set of Hooker Comp 1 7/8" headers, and an Edelbrock RPM AirGap intake manifold and I kept my same Comp hyd roller cam (which I still don't like), Comp Magnum rockers, went to a little softer dual valve spring instead of the bigger Comp Beehive's I was running; the car has finally come to life! What a difference!
The engine still comes on at about 2200, but pulls now from 3000 right to 6000! I can run 42' of timing and no more detonation, even on 91 octane pump gas; It idles with a nice lope now, and finally sounds like a hot rod, melts tires, and my gas mileage on the highway actually went up to 13mpg!

I just put the 3.70 gears into the rearend, so I haven't been down the track with it yet, but if feels a LOT stronger now; I still have a camshaft/convertor issue to solve (my 11" Prostreet converter stalls at 3500 instead of 2400 and this camshaft isn't right) but this is just what this engine needed-bigger heads and a little less compression; I should have done this on day 1.

And now that I think more about it, isn't owning a Cleveland all about "those 4 barrel heads" with ports that are "too big" anyway?"
Completely agree i wouldnt trade my 4v heads for any aftermarket ones . Maybe if i wanted full race motor, but not race street combo. Also running hooker headers and a dual 4 intake with 2 edelbrok 500 cfm carbs.Gret minds must think alike also have 370 gears with a yukon track lock diff.
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Jeff931
Jeff931
12. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 8:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 8:38 AM EDT
dual quads? awesome!

I kept the stock Ford posi; the frictions were shot, so we replaced all of it and new bearings with the 3.70 Motive gear set; someone had previously replaced the axle bearings and seals, but the diff was definitely tired after 175,000 miles (I owned the car it came out of)

What camshaft are you running? how much compression? manual or auto?
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suicide67
13. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 9:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 9:38 AM EDT
Well boys, I'm going a little different route. I have a clevor that is being built again, origionally had 2v heads. Stock stroke just forged internals. Now i'm adding a supercharger and looking to open up the breathing. Do you know which of these heads will work best regarding boost? I'd love to loose some weight off the top end too. Thanks for all your help Do you find this valuable?    

muscleup351
14. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 9:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 9:51 AM EDT
"dual quads? awesome!

I kept the stock Ford posi; the frictions were shot, so we replaced all of it and new bearings with the 3.70 Motive gear set; someone had previously replaced the axle bearings and seals, but the diff was definitely tired after 175,000 miles (I owned the car it came out of)

What camshaft are you running? how much compression? manual or auto?"
Hello manual trans YES DUAL quads hand built intake all under the hood . Compression is 10.9 to 1 Cam is a comp cam 578 lift 230 @ .050 110 centerlobe.Completely converted to roller
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Jeff931
Jeff931
15. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 2:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 2:21 PM EDT
what part number was your Comp Cam? is it the Magnum 290 HR p/n 32-541-8? http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=857&sb=2
do you like this camshaft? what rpm does it work best in?
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Jeff931
Jeff931
16. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 2:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 2:24 PM EDT
Cool!
what supercharger? what intake? how many PSI? which pistons? how much compression?
I think you can use almost any head if your forcing the air in, but alloy heads will drop some weight and absorb some heat and reduce your chance of detonation.
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suicide67
17. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 3:41 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 3:41 PM EDT
Leaning towards a procharger or simuliar that is self contained, Right now I have a Gt40 intake sitting on top of my 2v heads. It has a box alum upper and is EFI. I want to run about 10psi. I have D.S.S. forged 18cc dished pistons giving me right now with my stock heads 8.6-1. I have the Pricemotorsports adapter plates allowing me to run the windsor intake. I heard not so great things on the edelbrock heads. I'd like to go with the CHI's or the trick flows. Just wanted to see if anyboby has them, and what cc they used as they have a few different, 190cc, 225cc, etc Do you find this valuable?    

muscleup351
18. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 11 2010, 6:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 6:07 PM EDT
"what part number was your Comp Cam? is it the Magnum 290 HR p/n 32-541-8? http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=857&sb=2
do you like this camshaft? what rpm does it work best in?"
Yes thats the cam. Works from 2700 and up only spun it to 6600 so far,but still working .Has the best lope at idle ive ever heard. Being a 4 speed and using an aluminium flywheel makes it pop like crazy. Actually sounds like a horse galloping. The cam actually stops loping around 3100 rpm Dont think i will spin it much futher then 7000, BUT sure it will still keep pulling. Dont think this cam will like an auto trans Without a big stall.
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Jeff931
Jeff931
19. RE: Cleveland Cylinder Heads-CHI/AFD/TrickFlow/Edelbrock
Sep 12 2010, 6:31 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 12 2010, 6:31 AM EDT
what rpm does it idle at? and how much vaccum do you have at idle? how much initial advance do you run?

This is a little bigger cam than I have (mine is a split duration of 284/290; I think I have the intake lobe from the Magnum 284 and the same exhaust lobe as you from the Magnum 290) and my camshaft is ground on 110' LSA and 110' ICL so it idles better.
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